tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post765088037448367353..comments2024-02-07T23:25:07.429-06:00Comments on Bell Beaker Blogger: Re-writing Early Bronze Age [Radio Dates]bellbeakerbloggerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-34588033063929283472016-09-05T01:48:08.959-05:002016-09-05T01:48:08.959-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Allen jeleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312119051975318074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-8203861248824995822016-08-11T07:45:29.882-05:002016-08-11T07:45:29.882-05:00niceniceAllen jeleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312119051975318074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-17479422992354374072015-10-27T17:32:31.606-05:002015-10-27T17:32:31.606-05:00It's actually more complicated than that. The ...It's actually more complicated than that. The haplogroup I groups from Unetice were an I2c, I2a2, and a poorly defined I*. At least today, these aren't the "Balkan-type" I groups (which are M423 - I2a1b). Certainy I2a2 was widespread but perhaps not too common in central Europe - from Hungary to Yamnaya to Iberia by the Bronze Age period. Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-15022246174360534302015-10-27T14:04:37.368-05:002015-10-27T14:04:37.368-05:00I suppose it's possible to interpret the three...I suppose it's possible to interpret the three male haplogroups of Unetice as being Balkan as well.<br />All three men from two sites were I2a, c or *. The modern distribution peaks over Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia.<br /><br />http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml<br />http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/unetice_culture.shtml<br /><br />Interesting to note that so far, 100% of the Beaker lineages are R1b and 100% of the Unetice lineages are I2.<br />Of course, selection bias for elite burials is the cause, but I think we can see clear patterns of migration.bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-33418946297389212452015-10-27T04:45:46.282-05:002015-10-27T04:45:46.282-05:00Volker Heyd in the same book (I believe) suggests ...Volker Heyd in the same book (I believe) suggests the true Bronze Age (or post corded, post Beaker) marks an ideological shift from the copper age BB and CW cultures, aligning with Aegean - Balkan models Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-31215211390969922022015-10-22T22:35:27.368-05:002015-10-22T22:35:27.368-05:00Ha, ha. Maybe not Bronze Age Mormons. Religion-w...Ha, ha. Maybe not Bronze Age Mormons. Religion-wise, they're more similar to Beakers than anything.<br />As I understand it, the Unetice was a slow accumulation of wealth and modernity in a busy cross-road of transaction (Bohemia, but possibly having some influences from earlier Slovenia) and it began to implant itself in other regions as a separate ethnic or caste, surrounded by trailer parks. It implants itself up and down the Amber road and along East and West routes. Distant trade and control seems to be the main vector of Unetice.<br /><br />So going back in time, this is how I think a lot of this came together. Beaker, in its lifetime, vacuumed up odd things from cultures all over Europe, Africa and the Mediterranean and returned those influences, kind of like American Culture. It was a global economy and it was a cocky, materialistic culture. It heavily influenced almost every niche culture in Europe. Some cultures actually influenced it in a meaningful way, such as the Corded Ware, whose impact was greater because of secondary migrations from that zone, but it always dominated the character of any region where it appears. While the Beakers were at its core a very unique ethnic, it intermarried into the palate of Europe and created different colors of itself.<br /><br />Unetice grows out of a wealthy and sophisticated arm in (a position that would suggest it grew out of a Beaker network) kind of like New York in Florida and LA. Generally, it seems to PCA slightly more West towards Beakers than to Eastern Europe, but so far has some irregular haplogroup assignments that could be interpreted as possibly Baltic. Because it is so heavily represented in Poland, I thought it could have grown out of the Amber Road and accumulated materials and technology through trade wealth. It's ties to Britain and Ireland would seem to support this. This paper may make its metal technology disparity a little more stark, although I didn't read exactly how many of those 1B were actually Unetice.<br /><br />That's the long answer. I hope I'm not yelling.bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-36552120396477915172015-10-22T20:30:10.203-05:002015-10-22T20:30:10.203-05:00I feel like I have some familiarity with Corded Wa...I feel like I have some familiarity with Corded Ware, Urnfield and Beaker, but I have only a dim sense of how the Únětice culture fits into the picture. Which cultures does it seem to be in continuity with and which does it seem to be clearly distinct from? What is one to make of the "foreign influences" and what are you getting at when talking about "peculiar social groups"? Are you saying that they were the moral equivalent of Bronze Age Mormons or something?andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-1164305132293741232015-10-22T20:29:42.829-05:002015-10-22T20:29:42.829-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-66492129199129204612015-10-22T20:15:18.064-05:002015-10-22T20:15:18.064-05:00https://youtu.be/bvQ5FmM-5mIhttps://youtu.be/bvQ5FmM-5mIbellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-3223450557706238252015-10-22T19:34:52.889-05:002015-10-22T19:34:52.889-05:00dates are dactile, or datiles(Sp), to be eaten, pr...dates are dactile, or datiles(Sp), to be eaten, processed and spread on the field(of number Archolog.)to see what grows.<br />for copper/chalcolith=kalkhos(Gk)=Chalchiuitlicueye(N/goddess waters)=Cuexteca(2.200 BCE)=cueitl(N)=skirt(of jade)=<br />Chalc/ch=ch/halcón/falcon, bird of the goddess, 2d consort of Tlaloc, rain god of deer and Nomads. 3309BCE=<br />Quetzalcoatl copper expedition, and not for the first time as the crew were looking for Chaunis Tamoan(Haklyut's voyages)=Chauhnecocoya teoayan(N)=(cursed by the)Devil's cliffs, where pale copper lay in sheets underground.<br />either Georgia(USA)or Michigan, but Great Lakes seems too far as they entered the Gulf.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07439118473886861260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-25123894285102318002015-10-22T17:22:59.418-05:002015-10-22T17:22:59.418-05:00Corrected, thanks!Corrected, thanks!bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-58345198371716713862015-10-22T17:00:53.692-05:002015-10-22T17:00:53.692-05:00The main link directs to an unrelated paper on sta...The main link directs to an unrelated paper on starch-rich diet. You probably want to correct that.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-1248428283464284342015-10-22T13:40:14.456-05:002015-10-22T13:40:14.456-05:00...and with impeccably timed comment, Andrew, ther......and with impeccably timed comment, Andrew, there's this (possibly related to the 4.2kya) <br /><br />saw this on my phone about an hour ago, could also coincide with the introduction of the common house mouse, courtesy of the Southern Caucasus and Iran.<br /><br />http://www.nature.com/news/bronze-age-skeletons-were-earliest-plague-victims-1.18633<br /><br />bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-34533317438346261202015-10-22T13:28:36.532-05:002015-10-22T13:28:36.532-05:00The absolute dates are particularly important to a...The absolute dates are particularly important to align historical events with paleoclimate events like the 4.2kya.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.com