tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post4277097605883409196..comments2024-02-07T23:25:07.429-06:00Comments on Bell Beaker Blogger: The Three Quellengruppen - Even More Speculationbellbeakerbloggerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-81482112570640786682017-03-12T23:53:14.018-05:002017-03-12T23:53:14.018-05:00Oh I'm sure I'm quite insane. But I'm ...Oh I'm sure I'm quite insane. But I'm also fairly astute Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-59675546100908861702017-03-12T18:08:57.024-05:002017-03-12T18:08:57.024-05:00OM is just mad now that we have R1b and steppe anc...OM is just mad now that we have R1b and steppe ancestry in Germany, while Spain is just plain Middle Neolithic I2. So much for North Africa, eh? I told you guys for two years that this would be the case. Maju is probably crying himself to sleep too.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13876988480444711159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-7580520361550481302017-03-12T13:27:49.263-05:002017-03-12T13:27:49.263-05:00We'll see soon enoughWe'll see soon enoughbellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-6147568605266405012017-03-12T07:07:07.215-05:002017-03-12T07:07:07.215-05:00You are all mad. Pure and undultered mad. Better j...You are all mad. Pure and undultered mad. Better just whatching game of thrones. :)Olympus Monshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08640679631703214884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-70615237344067864962017-03-12T01:27:50.632-06:002017-03-12T01:27:50.632-06:00Maybe it'll depend on what and when we classif...Maybe it'll depend on what and when we classify as "BB" :)Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-69871974984566163262017-03-11T23:30:54.639-06:002017-03-11T23:30:54.639-06:00We'll see. Definitely not a dominant haplogro...We'll see. Definitely not a dominant haplogroup of SW Europe, but early Maritime Beakers don't seem to have developed in a vacuum either.bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-17931250966232261122017-03-11T14:32:04.389-06:002017-03-11T14:32:04.389-06:00Well, one thing is hopefully becoming clear to peo...Well, one thing is hopefully becoming clear to people. R1b has nothing to do with early Iberian BB.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13876988480444711159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-24542453609828606632017-03-10T15:30:39.469-06:002017-03-10T15:30:39.469-06:00I wonder if this enclosures in Portugal can be com...I wonder if this enclosures in Portugal can be compared to contemporary ones in Eastern Europe (Vucedol, or CT). Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-90782492041236607522017-03-09T20:06:43.688-06:002017-03-09T20:06:43.688-06:00I kind of envision the formation of a pan-European...I kind of envision the formation of a pan-European Beaker ethnicity like the formation of a Hispanic identity with two or more groups fusing sometimes in different places, getting somewhat similar results and with a slowly increasing notion of pan-national identity. And with several hundred years of intermixing actually solidify into an actual genealogical ethnic group. <br />So the factors in the Tagus estuary may have been different than the Rhine, but I think Beakers would recognize other Beakers despite the regional differences. I think that can be demonstrated as well.<br /><br />OTOH, there are definitely intruders in the Iberian littorals which had very distant sea-borne trade contacts. And despite the attempt to turn the VNSP forts into fun and interesting places, the accumulation of wealth must have made the Portuguese coast a target of raiding, because clearly they are built for defense. It just so happens that Maritime Beakers are the inheritors of this. <br />Given the Moroccan influence and something maybe a little like incrustated wares, possibly the Western Mediterranean had become a contest, but I doubt Maritime ware is something born innocently out of the VNSP.bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-35718020952815783412017-03-09T18:33:13.416-06:002017-03-09T18:33:13.416-06:00So do you think Tagus is its own independent start...So do you think Tagus is its own independent starting point, or an early landing spot of central-eastern Beaker folk from the Rhine ?Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-51932513335990894672017-03-09T17:06:50.380-06:002017-03-09T17:06:50.380-06:00Ok,
The first issue is the distribution of Beaker...Ok, <br />The first issue is the distribution of Beaker pottery in Portugal which is suggestive to me that they are a rather distinct people that cluster together in small enclaves or in the Estuary area. <br />But the issue is the 'influence' of the Tagus Estuary during this continental spread. Maybe in some ways it is like New York City which holds considerable influence over the United States but has little genetic impact? I don't know, but Lisbon is Western Europe's oldest developed area. Or it may have been equally important if the majority of the Beaker spread was water based?<br /><br />In this way, Oliver Lemercier's Greek Implantation Theory may have some sway, especially as he uses the lower Rhone as his example.<br /><br />bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-12093800961157221992017-03-09T16:31:16.808-06:002017-03-09T16:31:16.808-06:00Well, it may be dependent on the interpretation of...Well, it may be dependent on the interpretation of the essentials, and how they're ranked, but even here they emphasize (or at least have to this point) the early character essentials as developing in Iberia even though Iberia never really gets the full package as it is expressed elsewhere.<br />I have read that, let me briefly read again and respond..bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-75748746143005269732017-03-09T15:40:14.908-06:002017-03-09T15:40:14.908-06:00Yes intriguing
But is Iberia really the "dri...Yes intriguing <br />But is Iberia really the "driving force" or merely the idea behind the Maritime Beaker ? Because the actual BB package appears in Iberia late on <br /><br />Have you read Salanova's chapter here on western beakers ?<br />https://books.google.com.au/books?id=qKSVAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA66&dq=Bell+Beakers+Breton&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Bell%20Beakers%20Breton&f=false<br /><br />Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.com