tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post5826927375526157470..comments2024-02-07T23:25:07.429-06:00Comments on Bell Beaker Blogger: Composite and Compound Bows of the Sahara (Jean-Lois Le Quellec)bellbeakerbloggerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-68076433773234365522017-01-25T07:43:19.739-06:002017-01-25T07:43:19.739-06:00NiceNiceAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04571828795230778384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-33865271725378089312016-03-30T04:40:50.115-05:002016-03-30T04:40:50.115-05:00I think that bow hunting is best and popular ways ...I think that bow hunting is best and popular ways of hunting. I like this ways for hunting.<br /><a href="http://thesportsheaven.com/" rel="nofollow">best compound bow</a>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14888261665523344397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-83665380887687649622015-01-17T08:11:39.844-06:002015-01-17T08:11:39.844-06:00"I think all sorts of weird stuff will come o..."I think all sorts of weird stuff will come out of the proper sub-sahara eventually."<br /><br />Eg. Y DNA haplogroup N1c-Tat in Equatorial Guinea Bantu [Gonzalez et al, 2013].<br /><br />Finland or Latvia's lost colony in Africa??<br /><br />Q-MEH2 in Tanazania Sandawe [Xu et al. 2014];<br /><br />H*-M69 (xM82), and R-M124 [R2] in Biaka pygmies [Xu et al. 2014];<br /><br />R1a in Namibia Herero and Ethiopia Amhara;<br /><br />mtDNA haplogroup R7 in Rwanda Tutsi;<br /><br />There are dozens of these oddities out there.<br /><br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13013399855770625556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-1947325218056891362015-01-15T17:18:19.417-06:002015-01-15T17:18:19.417-06:00Thanks for the encouragement.
Hopefully I'm l...Thanks for the encouragement.<br /><br />Hopefully I'm looking at the right chart (Africa9 on Dodecad)<br />There are two aspects on North Africa that I look at.<br /><br />1. The Circum-Sahara probably contains relict ancestry of steppe pastoralists from the decline/implosion of the Green Sahara 3.5-3k B.C. I would call it a 'grass fire pattern' It could explain the odd presence of M269 in Nigeriens and Nubians and V88 in Chadic and Cameroonian peoples. I saw a study that showed M269 in two Pygmies. I think all sorts of weird stuff will come out of the proper sub-sahara eventually.<br /><br />2. Maternal Substrate among Atlas and Oasis Berbers within the burn pattern. After subtracting the hypothetical influx introduced in the EBA from the Horn of Africa or E. Africa, I suspect you are left with something that looks surprisingly European.<br /><br />I think at one time the Central Sahara pastoralist were more Iranian-like (4.5-3k B.C.)<br />Their material culture (lithics, lifestyle) might support this. This population was very severely bottle-necked in the Bronze Age, which is about the time Afro-Asiatic nomads with browsing domesticates began overtaking the the region.<br /><br />I suspect by the Bronze Age the remaining cattle pastoralists were increasingly crowded in smaller valleys and oases such as Siwa, where they became vulnerable to highly nomadic raiders (Proto-Berber, Proto-Chadic, etc)<br />So I don't know what proportion a pre-pre-proto-Beaker might have for NW African or European, but the NW African component might actually be a NE African Component?<br /><br />I'm not ready to gamble just yet. <br /><br />bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-48811575771663910292015-01-15T15:49:16.043-06:002015-01-15T15:49:16.043-06:00Those African components don't extend out of f...Those African components don't extend out of far SW Europe. They aren't connected to any R1b movements. <br /><br />As far as rapid firing... the type of bow does not matter. Anyone that shoots, knows that.Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-28913881446778240322015-01-15T12:43:49.104-06:002015-01-15T12:43:49.104-06:00Your Blog is very interesting, a real pleasure
If...Your Blog is very interesting, a real pleasure<br /><br />If the Bell Beakers (the first ones )have roots in Africa, . Don't you think that the NW African component of Dodecad is of this origin ? If you compare the national averages, if the results are correct of course !, , the level of this component is very high in portugal, the heart of this culture in Europe. Helgenes50https://www.blogger.com/profile/10048641344885582425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-10699894811961116462015-01-15T09:15:22.015-06:002015-01-15T09:15:22.015-06:00Hyksos=tecpatl tzotzoyotia=arrow society=tectzotz(...Hyksos=tecpatl tzotzoyotia=arrow society=tectzotz(N)=string beads/popcorn/arrows. one would need composite bow<br />for rapid fire.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07439118473886861260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-14480661428836302462015-01-14T22:02:25.092-06:002015-01-14T22:02:25.092-06:00Of course that recurve is about 400 years after Be...Of course that recurve is about 400 years after Beaker, either way. I'd be the style was brought from West Asia, during the Bronze Age.<br />Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-75522607438898646572015-01-14T21:59:53.247-06:002015-01-14T21:59:53.247-06:00f you're referring to the build of the bow, it... f you're referring to the build of the bow, it's about the availability of specific trees. In a place where there is a lack of elm, yew, or maple, you could have to compensate. If you're referring to how you hold a bow, that is universal... you never lock out your arm. You always turn it in, with the elbow facing out at about 90degrees. <br /><br />That banding might be just a type of backing, if they hadn't developed sinew or any other type of backing. This will just make it a little stronger. The Meare Heath is another flatbow, longbow, just like the Holmgaard, and Mollagabet types you see common with Bell Beaker. <br /><br />The recurve bow is from heated tips that I talked about. None has been found north of there, AFAIK. All Bell Beaker bows are of the flatbow/longbow variety. Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-43362995714658091522015-01-14T19:46:18.385-06:002015-01-14T19:46:18.385-06:00It may depend on an individual's physiology.
...It may depend on an individual's physiology.<br /><br />If you compare the bow-shaped pendants of Central European Beakers with the Meare Heath bow, it's possible to see some similarities. The purpose of the banding is controversial. It may have provided better distribution, or it may have banded a compound material, which in my opinion gives a better explanation for leather and sinew banding. It is dated to about 4600 BP.<br />http://www.thepaas.org/archery.html<br /><br />Also, in the link is an example of the oldest found European recurve at 3600.bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-45751280474708728972015-01-14T17:14:06.696-06:002015-01-14T17:14:06.696-06:00There are bounded bows in early Europe and even Am...There are bounded bows in early Europe and even America too. Also, your post about Beaker bow draw weights, the gentleman is holding the bow wrong. You do not lock your arm. It is turned inward and the bracer goes over that bone and part of the underside, not the whole underside of your arm. Locking your arm will create the slap on the underside of the forearm, and is not correct form.Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-6499841245543022292015-01-14T17:09:00.668-06:002015-01-14T17:09:00.668-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-34427567310271931902015-01-14T16:06:42.139-06:002015-01-14T16:06:42.139-06:00In this sense, compounded doesn't refer to a l...In this sense, compounded doesn't refer to a levered bow with pulleys, compounded as used by Le Quellec refers to bows with bound materials that aren't laminated. He has an example on Fig. 36bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-11957847680311347822015-01-14T15:58:26.481-06:002015-01-14T15:58:26.481-06:00True, there is no positive evidence of composite b...True, there is no positive evidence of composite bows before a certain date, but Le Quellec is looking at the circumstantial evidence.<br />Very few bows or arrow-shafts have survived in Europe.<br /><br />bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-68295639479955395062015-01-14T15:55:39.251-06:002015-01-14T15:55:39.251-06:00Those bows are likely short bows, with recurved ti...Those bows are likely short bows, with recurved tips achieved by heat treating and bending of the limb. This would give that short, horsebow appearance. Composite bows would have artifacts of horn around the bows. BTW, compound refers to modern mechanical bows. Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-91815272151363983322015-01-14T15:41:13.445-06:002015-01-14T15:41:13.445-06:00No beaker bows are out of the norm for that time p...No beaker bows are out of the norm for that time period in Europe.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13876988480444711159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-56934157628235998772015-01-14T15:05:21.303-06:002015-01-14T15:05:21.303-06:00Bracers are more necessary with longbows than thos...Bracers are more necessary with longbows than those composite horsebow types. There is no evidence of composite bows prior to 2000bce, nor is there any evidence of them in Europe prior to the Classical Greek/ scythian period. Egyptian art, while simplistic is no argument for. I wonder if the author ever shot a traditional bow.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13876988480444711159noreply@blogger.com