tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post771962134559718553..comments2024-02-07T23:25:07.429-06:00Comments on Bell Beaker Blogger: Taubertal (update)bellbeakerbloggerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-38522323243190164602019-10-21T17:21:07.485-05:002019-10-21T17:21:07.485-05:00The timing of the stone age black plague bacteria ...The timing of the stone age black plague bacteria is about right to be a driver of LP evolution.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-6536829985793473392019-10-17T14:02:19.124-05:002019-10-17T14:02:19.124-05:00I'll see if I can find a copy. I appreciate i...I'll see if I can find a copy. I appreciate it.bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-44965030916380599082019-10-17T11:15:04.752-05:002019-10-17T11:15:04.752-05:00New book about Bell Beakers in France: Les cabanes...New book about Bell Beakers in France: Les cabanes campaniformes des Calades (Orgon - Bouches-du-Rhône), 2019<br />See the following link: http://www.librairie-archeologique.com/index.html?produit=51778Bernardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12315331235019626444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-24788600297052001402019-10-13T17:57:52.235-05:002019-10-13T17:57:52.235-05:00So about 2500 BCE +/- half a century. Also trepana...So about 2500 BCE +/- half a century. Also trepanation in one person's skull. The adult and child sharing mtDNA is tricky and not what you'd expect naively, if they are indeed, also father and son, although not shocking either. The shared mtDNA would at least tend to favor, for example, a cousin marriage over a foreign bride, if they are indeed father and son, which would means that the Y-DNA in the child has to have entered the community at least a generation or two earlier. The female adult and female child as mother and daughter does seem plausible. But the adult female couldn't be a full blood sister or mother-in-law of the adult male. If the bodies were buried not at the same time, however, the relationships are less rigidly bound. The boy could be a child of a first marriage, and the adult women could be a widowed second wife with a daughter from the same man.<br /><br />It is a little hard to tell what the anthropology says about the relative times of burial for the four individuals.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-45221435284864957212019-10-13T17:46:45.631-05:002019-10-13T17:46:45.631-05:00@Matt Good catch.@Matt Good catch.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-28958080427682168482019-10-13T11:54:25.736-05:002019-10-13T11:54:25.736-05:00Wow, thanks for adding that. The likely maternal ...Wow, thanks for adding that. The likely maternal correspondences leaves a lot to ponder.bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-11755145734078996042019-10-13T11:52:04.200-05:002019-10-13T11:52:04.200-05:00Yes, it is too early, but I'm referring to wha...Yes, it is too early, but I'm referring to what might be a trend if rumors of older and more easterly lineages are discovered, especially if they have no detectable West European ancestrybellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-64836343320006219622019-10-13T11:46:01.378-05:002019-10-13T11:46:01.378-05:00@BBB, reference to "two paternal lineages&quo...@BBB, reference to "two paternal lineages" doesn't seem quite right, unless I'm misreading you.<br /><br />Only one R1b, from a male child (sample ALT_4, cal BC 2570-2458, aged 6-7 years). <i>"The man of about 30 years' arms were placed around the body of a 6-7 year old child who is facing him"</i>. The male child shares an mtdna U5a1a1 with the male (ALT_1). The adult male could not be typed. The male could not in fact even be clarified as male by genotype, but I doubt that the archaeology and anthropology got it wrong.<br /><br />There is also a female adult aged 40-50 (possibly unlikely to be a bride of the 30 year old male, jumping to conclusions from age range), ALT_2, who is facing a female child ALT_3 aged 9-11 years. This pair also share the same mtdna, K1b2b.<br /><br />Both children were wrongly sexed by phys anth and anthropology, originally, and only the genotypes cleared it up.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-78866727862989933092019-10-13T11:18:13.785-05:002019-10-13T11:18:13.785-05:00This is pretty much what I was suggesting - the No...This is pretty much what I was suggesting - the North Pontic Steppe is North/North East of the Balkans.<br />The point I was making is that Taubertal Corded Ware seems too recent to be a prime candidate for the original development location of the L51 pre-Beaker people.Nicolas Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-47359239687200643822019-10-13T04:20:39.335-05:002019-10-13T04:20:39.335-05:00@Nicolas Paul
You're not making much sense th...@Nicolas Paul<br /><br />You're not making much sense there, because it should be obvious that the core DNA of mainstream R1a Corded Ware populations came from the North Pontic steppe.<br /><br />I mean, where have you been for the last few years? At least read this and try and understand it...<br /><br />https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2019.1528Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-60921647845226811572019-10-13T03:52:35.474-05:002019-10-13T03:52:35.474-05:00Taubertal M269 is likely not only L51 and P310, bu...Taubertal M269 is likely not only L51 and P310, but also U152 and perhaps even L2 - i.e. from the same limited downstream branch of L51 that spawned other Eastern samples. L51 per se looks much older, likely developing between the Balkans and Iberia.<br />The core DNA of mainstream R1a Corded Ware populations looks to have already formed to the North/North East of L51 long before the CW culture developed.Nicolas Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-3170845137856974412019-10-13T00:28:35.299-05:002019-10-13T00:28:35.299-05:00There's only R1b from the Taubertal site, and ...There's only R1b from the Taubertal site, and it's probably R1b-P310, and hence also R1b-L51.<br /><br />Anyway, thoughts?<br /><br />https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/10/the-balkan-connection.html<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.com