tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post7888528446327882264..comments2024-02-07T23:25:07.429-06:00Comments on Bell Beaker Blogger: Alien Minorities in Crete and Cyprusbellbeakerbloggerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-85552767353188163282016-02-16T08:54:15.353-06:002016-02-16T08:54:15.353-06:00I checked. It is alabaster, thanks!I checked. It is alabaster, thanks!bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-4523890312765840782016-02-16T08:47:33.346-06:002016-02-16T08:47:33.346-06:00Ok, that's right. I may have misinterpreted t...Ok, that's right. I may have misinterpreted the direction they were going, but it sounded like they were suggesting that M589's absence in Crete and the Balkans, despite being dwarfed by z2105, that an Anatolian origin for both was more likely.? (Even though it assumed to have come from the North at an earlier time as they reference the z2105's in the North Caspian)<br />bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-37120661067368103962016-02-16T05:54:28.150-06:002016-02-16T05:54:28.150-06:00Not sure why you say that the Cypriot R1b-M269 is ...Not sure why you say that the Cypriot R1b-M269 is from Anatolia. When you actually read <a href="http://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13323-016-0032-8/fulltext.html" rel="nofollow">the paper</a>, which is open access, they say the following (table 2):<br /><br />Anatolia-related: 0.22<br />Greece-related: 0.48<br />Levant-related: 0.30<br /><br />So basically most R1b in Cyprus is Greece-related (almost 50%) or Levant-related (30%) and only a smaller fraction (~20%) is Anatolia-related. The only haplogroup that is strongly related to Anatolia is G and even with this one the authors consider its possible origin in "Northern Levant":<br /><br /><i>Interestingly, the more deeply rooted sub-haplogroup G2a-L293 also occurs in Anatolia and northern Levant (Additional file 5: Figure S2), consistent with the PPNB crescent including Syrian areas whose maternal genetic legacy is coherent with the maritime movements of early farmers [14]</i>.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-87147789125607455932016-02-16T05:39:05.077-06:002016-02-16T05:39:05.077-06:00The jug is almost certainly made of alabaster, car...The jug is almost certainly made of alabaster, carved red alabaster of the kind you can find in Cappadocia. I'm actually using an ashtray of a very similar material I bought there many many years ago. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-44357111067592816122016-02-12T21:55:16.217-06:002016-02-12T21:55:16.217-06:00Interesting, thanks for posting. You mention the ...Interesting, thanks for posting. You mention the position of Anatolian IE which is an interesting subject. There's an older paper that I never posted that talks a little about the however apparent westernization of Luwian and Old Hittite compared to the Eastern Anatolian languages, which is more Eastern shifted. It would be interesting if the increasingly western features of Luwian are due to an expansion of actual Western Europeans (BB). Maybe that's a little far fetched, but the timing makes you wonder.bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-29166783741871409302016-02-12T21:45:11.367-06:002016-02-12T21:45:11.367-06:00The jug is not ceramic, I hope that I didn't i...The jug is not ceramic, I hope that I didn't imply it was, but thanks for asking. It looks to be carved out of rock/mineral. From my perspective, it's the horizontal layering of red and white that I find interesting, so even though it is naturally occurring, I would say that its presentation is not accidental.<br /><br />I'll check out Red River, sounds interesting.bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-15660409288237074622016-02-12T20:49:28.183-06:002016-02-12T20:49:28.183-06:00One bit of historical fiction that does an excelle...One bit of historical fiction that does an excellent job of providing a feel of this era is the multi-volume Japanese manga series "Red River". It goes to great pains to be authentic (although, of course, it has some supernatural plot devices, some consistent with the lore of the age and some necessary to put a Japanese teenage girl into the setting as our interlocutor). It really inspired me to dig into actual histories and archaeology from the Copper Age and Bronze Age era. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_River_(manga)andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-2658136252847384122016-02-12T20:43:51.746-06:002016-02-12T20:43:51.746-06:00I explored the hypothesis at greater length at htt...I explored the hypothesis at greater length at http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.com/2011/06/case-for-minoan-as-greater-hurrian.html and the incantations are discussed at http://minoablog.blogspot.com/2010/02/minoan-incantations-on-egyptian-papyri.html and the hypothesis is also discussed at http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2013/05/high-mtdna-affinity-between-bronze-age.html?showComment=1388717116258#c1467288314101395020andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-66854550289733652952016-02-12T20:35:57.072-06:002016-02-12T20:35:57.072-06:00Is the mug from Mochlos ceramic? It looks like it...Is the mug from Mochlos ceramic? It looks like it is carved out of marble in the picture? andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-21310013335766888292016-02-12T20:33:56.038-06:002016-02-12T20:33:56.038-06:00My working hypothesis is that Minoan civilization ...My working hypothesis is that Minoan civilization was an extension of Western Anatolian non-Indo-European Hattic civilization, and that the Hattic civilization itself was a result of migrations from the East in the Copper Age or early Bronze Age that was genetically distinct from the descendants of the original Early European Farmers who originated there. In this view, the source to the east of Anatolia was probably also the source civilization for the Bell Beakers or a sister civilization.<br /><br />One reason to link Hattic civilization and Minoan civilization which is anecdotal, but powerful, is that one of the few phonetic accounts of the Minoan language comes from an Egyptian book recounting Minoan spells in Coptic writing. In it, the Minoan language sounds remarkably similar to the Hattic language (which is attested in many Hittite sources because Hattic continued to be in use in liturgical contexts long after it had been displaced by the Indo-European Hittite language in other contexts).<br /><br />I also think that the conventional linguistic practice of viewing Hittite as a particularly basal branch of Indo-European is wrong. Instead, I think that Hittite probably came into being ca. 2000 BCE (around the same time an the Myceneans and earliest Indo-Aryans) as Indo-Europeans migrated into Anatolia and were powerfully influenced by the substrate Hattic language which was profoundly different in phonetics, grammar and common lexicon from the substrate Early European Farmer languages that first Indo-Europeans in Eastern and Central Europe had encountered from which Proto-Indo-European probably borrowed some words and maybe even some grammatical conventions either via creolization or simply areal effects. There are also probably some features of an alleged Indo-European language in which a Hittite choice is assumed to derive from PIE based on the theory that Hittite is more basal, that in fact, derived from the non-Indo-European substrate of Hittite, although I don't have a lot solid specific examples of that.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-40315987770210626452016-02-12T14:29:57.546-06:002016-02-12T14:29:57.546-06:00They are incredibleThey are incrediblebellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6886680068187530519.post-66967661213662170422016-02-12T02:12:41.608-06:002016-02-12T02:12:41.608-06:00Thanks for posting these beautiful ceramics.
That&...Thanks for posting these beautiful ceramics.<br />That' is important to keep in mind that our ancestors are not just haplogroups.Helgenes50https://www.blogger.com/profile/10048641344885582425noreply@blogger.com