"It seems vain to want to comprehend all the Bell Beakers manifestations in a single theory."
That's from Oliver Lemercier, 2018. Local Data and Global Perspectives in Bell Beaker Archaeology in the Journal of Neolithic Archaeology.
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| From the paper |
There is an ironic and inverse relationship between knowledge and theory when it comes to the Bell Beakers. The more you learn about Bell Beakers, the more difficult it is to make bold declarations. I believe it was Turek that said this mystery isn't because Beakers were unusual people or something, but because they lived so long ago and left us no written account of their civilization. So we have to guess at why they did the things they did, why they married who they did, what they spoke, and who they worshiped.
If I remember correctly, Lemercier has read, studied or collected an enormous body of documentation produced on the Bell Beakers; I recall it being several thousand documents. Remember that much of the primary research on Beakers is documented in twenty-something languages spanning a century. There's a lot out there. So when Lemercier says 'it ain't that simple people', he has my attention.
Anyhow, that map above is amazing in the sense that the 'phenomenon' had such a wide arc of influence, even on very distant cultures. The Beaker stylistic influences actually go beyond the yellow peripheral areas in theory.
While a single theory of their development and motivations may be impossible, some basic statements can be said of their civilization, see Czebreszuk
I see in the graphic that the Beakers in Denmark as part of the North Beaker culture too. Did they have a genetic influence on the British Isles like the Lower Rhine Beakers? Or was is just a cultural relation?
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure to what extend Danish Beakers may have influenced the British Islands. Nothing would surprise me, in fact I'd guess so. Danish Beakers do seem to have influenced Greater Poland and the edges of Scandinavia.
ReplyDeleteSo I've been following the Beaker story for over a year now, reading the papers, and trying to follow the online commentary. And it's still not clear to me what the consensus is on the genetic origin of the Beaker folk (to the degree that there IS a Beaker folk). My impression, based on the Y-DNA papers is that they were either an offshoot of the Corded Ware population or a sister group out of steppe Yamnaya. There's no end of discussion of whether Yamnaya was the source of PIE, but far less interest in nailing down the Beakers as a genetic population. So what do you think?
ReplyDeleteNobody knows for sure.
DeleteI have a theory on the genetic origins on the Continental Beakers and Iberian Beakers, but it's so convoluted and implausible that it sounds stupid when put to words. A lot of folks online are under the mistaken belief that this will all be figured out with a few more of the right ancient samples. Trust me, it won't be.
From a genetics angle I think Davidski is poking in the right region, but I doubt a couple of PFB genomes will solve much because more questions will arise from that.
Observations:
ReplyDelete(1) The date range is IMHO too grudging. I would start at least a couple of centuries earlier and I don't think it is unfair to consider successor archaeological cultures all of the way up to 1200 BCE (Bronze Age Collapse) to be part of the Bell Beaker Civilization at the broadest level of generality. This is particularly true given the very generous definition of the geographic range of the Bell Beaker Civilization used.
(2) The names for the "cultures" are incredibly unimaginative and uninformative. Normally archaeological cultures either named after a distinctive litmus test feature of the archeological culture (e.g. Corded Ware) or by the name of an archaeological site that is the type case (e.g. Vinca).
(3) @MarkB One of the core difficulties is nailing down the genetic origin of the Beaker folk is that the big Beaker genetics paper concluded based on ancient DNA that Bell Beaker remains from SW Europe (which have much less steppe ancestry but still predominantly Y-DNA R1b) don't have that much in common in terms of autosomal genetics with all of the other ancient Bell Beaker DNA, suggesting that the story of the Bell Beaker civilization is not simply the story of one mass migration.
(4) While it is fair to say based on the available data that you can explain all Bell Beaker population genetics with a single simple migration theory, I haven't seen anything to seriously suggest that Bell Beaker material culture can't be explained as a single diversifying whole originating in SW Iberia. The means by which this material culture was spread and apparently even hopped into one or more other genetic populations is a bit sketchy, but the existence of a common origin that shared both material culture and probably related religious or cultural concepts and possible even a language family doesn't seem to be seriously in doubt IMHO.
Eminem popped in my head for some reason. Are you saying Beakers were like white rappers? Hahaha
DeletePhotoshop time...
Actually, not a bad analogy. One of the mildly creepy signs of globalization of culture is that there are now rappers all over the world - in Ireland, in Korea and Japan and Malaysia, in Saudi Arabia and Morocco, in France and Germany, in Finland, in Russia. And, they share something of a material culture and take on the world. Of course, unlike Eminem, most of them did grow up immersed in the source something that shows in their work.
DeleteMore on the rap analogy: https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/01/29/various-asiatic-raps/
Delete1) There is a very good comment from Diego Arroyo de Lagasca Encinas on Eurogenes about Single Grave Culture:
ReplyDelete"Territory of the SGC-southern Scandinavia, Low countries, and northern Germany.
Regarding the SGC,three types of objects are (in this order) the most popular grave goods- protruding foot beaker, stone axes and retouched flint blades.
Interestingly, the flint knives are exclusively produced of Scandinavian flint (Van Gijn 2010,141-143), but nevertheless, during the transition period from the Single Grave to the
Bell Beaker period, there is a clear deviation from this custom, because the Belgian (Wallonian)-French flint starts to be used. It may therefore represent a shifting orientation of contacts and exchange networks from north (Scandinavia) to south (eastern Belgium/France).
In the Netherlands the beautifully crafted ‘daggers’ made of honey-coloured flint
from Le Grand Pressigny or Romigny Léry in Central France (e.g. Beuker 2010; Van Gijn 2010) only appear in association with All Over Ornamented beakers. The AOO phase marks the start of the Bell Beaker Culture (cf. Fokkens 2012a). The AOO beaker-GP dagger association
also marks the development of contacts with southern regions.
The Single Grave Culture is generally dated between c. 2800 and 2400 cal BC (cf. Lanting and Van der Plicht 1999/2000). All Over Ornamented Beakers share more or less the same dating range, probably between c. 2600-2400 cal BC (Beckerman 2015,157 ff.)
The Dutch archaeologists observe a very early change of trend (2,650-2,550 BC) in the SGC of the Netherlands, the contacts with the north are abandoned and the influences of the south (Belgium and France) begin, this period of time when it had to take place also that genetic change-
That's when I think P312 appears, along with the pottery, copper and the rest of the BB package.
All Western with a material culture far superior to that of the SGC."
We can see from this comment how it is difficult to derive Bell Beaker culture from Single Grave culture. You can read also the Fokkens paper: Background to Dutch Beakers: a critical review of the Dutch model
2) Last week-end, I attended to a conference from Olivier Lemercier and could talk with him a few minutes. From him, many Iberian Bell Beaker from Olalde paper are not associated with Bell Beaker archaeological goods. They are only said Bell Beakers since dated between 2500 and 2000 BC. So for Lemercier these samples are not Bell Beakers.
I totally 100% agree with Lemercier's assessment of the Iberian "Beaker" individuals. It was surprising seeing the positive association with a Beaker identity based on a piece of gold foil or from rubbish in a collective grave.
DeleteIn a few cases, for lack of a better understanding, some of these individuals like two of those from Liesau et al, might have been uhh, workers, and two that were victims of something. Not exactly Amesbury Archer confidence.
Bell Beaker blogger-"I have a theory on the genetic origins on the Continental Beakers and Iberian Beakers, but it's so convoluted and implausible that it sounds stupid when put to words. A lot of folks online are under the mistaken belief that this will all be figured out with a few more of the right ancient samples. Trust me, it won't be"
ReplyDeleteCould you share your theory with us? I do not know if you've done it before but I do not know it
I believe that Davidski's latest work is good, although to a certain extent, devastating for the theory of steppe migrations from the Yamnaya culture (something that was evident to the great majority of archaeologists and geneticists in Europe). For me it is the last trench of the Kurganists.
The origin of L51 and P312 is clearly western and the origin of the Bb culture is clearly Iberian by the dating of C14 of Portugal. Nobody can deny it. Lemercier is a great archeologist and he has known it for a long time. His works on the French and Spanish BBC are very good and he has no doubt about the Iberian influence. His explanation of the BB civilization is certainly successful.
@Bernard, I read some of your posts in anthrogenica before my perpetual ban.I do not know if you read the information I sent about mitochondrial haplogroups, but it is absolutely true. Our databases are not known internationally because only some data are published. We still need to know a lot more about France, because many people think that the solution for P312 and many other questions is in the Franco-Cantabrian region.
There is nothing of Basque / Spanish nationalism in my opinions, as many people pretend to believe, only curiosity.
Un saludo.
L51 is clearly correlated with steppe ancestry and so cannot be of western origin. About the Iberian Bell Beaker dating, two important arguments tell us to take these data with caution. Indeed, the radiocarbon calibration curve has many plateaux during the third millennium BC which implies a high uncertainty on the calibrated date. On the other hand, the ancient dates obtained in the Iberian Peninsula come from complex archaeological contexts, often settlements or collective graves whose duration of use extends well before Bell Beakers. How to be sure that the measured date corresponds to Bell beakers and not to a previous culture? Second, there are also early Bell Beaker dates outside Iberia: for example in France, Hégenheim (2832–2476 BC), Blignicourt (2850-2480 BC), Flévy (2855-2409 BC) or Achenheim (2848-2470 BC).
DeleteThe more time you keep looking for L51 in the steppes, the more evident the failure will be.I hope that regarding R1b-P312 you think of a western origin. Or does it also come from the Yamnaya culture?
DeleteAfter the dating of Joao Cardoso in 2014, caution is unnecessary except for those who intend to exclude Iberia from this whole matter.
These French dates are very old (2,650-2,600 BC), but not as much as the Portuguese and Galician. In any case, they are another proof of the western origin of the BBC (for me it is indifferent that it was in Spain or France). A curiosity those dates are made in tombs? Are they collective burials? Have human remains been recovered in them? What kind of pottery there was in those deposits?
Lemercier has always been very clear about the Iberian influence on the French BB culture, not only because of the pottery styles but also because of the tipology of the arrowheads and the territorial extension of the Palmela type spearheads.
If L51 is of western origin, Z2103 is of western origin too. In this last case yamnaya guys would have Anatolian ancestry, but it is not the case. So forget it. The problem is you are blinded by your own opinion and you do not look at the scientific data objectively.
DeleteThese early French dates are from single burial with maritime or AOC beakers.
Bell beaker is a complex problem: Iberian influence doesn't mean Iberian origin.
That reasoning is very simple and as I understand it, wrong. Could you explain me why R1b-Z2103 left descendants in all Eastern Europe (Yamnaya Hungary-Vucedol) and R1b-L51 only in Western Europe?
DeleteWhereas Eastern Europe has not L51 descendants, Western Europe has many old subclades of Z2013
Is not smarter to think that the other way around happened ?
Delenda est Yamnaya my friend, I imagine the panic attack of ultra-Kurganists with the appearance of the new Dutch model. I would like to discuss it with them after the amount of nonsense that they have said about it.To say that L51 has an oriental origin you have to prove it and so far it does not exist in any culture of the steppes (Sredni Stog, Khvalinsk, Repin Yamnaya etc.).
You imagine that Df27 had its origin in Iberia and I said that as U152 is his brother he also has his origin here. Totally absurd, right? The same thing happens with the theory of the oriental origin of L51 because it is the brother of Z2103.
In any case, the important thing is the BB culture and Lemercier has totally succeeded with its definition-"Thus, the Bell Beaker phenomenon, with Maritime beakers and a specific set of weapons and ornaments, could result from the combination of an ideology of eastern origin linked to status (warrior) and social practices (banquet) which formed a region of advanced civilization in the western Iberian Peninsula. Among a variety of adaptations or reactions, the Bell Beaker phenomenon would correspond to the adoption of certain elements of an ideology of distant origin by certain groups or individuals. These elements, largely integrated thereafter, lead to a profound transformation of material cultures and practices of cultural groups, culminating in the appearance of a kind of Bell Beaker civilization of continental scale".
And where do you think the oldest maritime beakers are dated?
Yes, it is a complex and exciting problem, we have been arguing for more than 130 years since the first burial was discovered in Ciempozuelos (Madrid).
@Diego
Delete"Could you share your theory with us? I do not know if you've done it before but I do not know it"
Nothing more than a chain of conjectures that becomes increasingly implausible as it attempts to explain everything. I don't really have a strong opinion or theory, just possibilities.
Part of the answer may lie with Beau et al this last year, Hervelle's response to Brotherton, and the other genetic characteristic of the final Danube. I guess I'll put it into a new post
Ok, it would be good to know your opinion. I've been looking at the blog photos and I was surprised to see Palmela's spearheads in Germany and England.
DeleteUn saludo
Wow, I had heard of the bell-beakers but never realized their huge importance in prehistoric Europe. This is mind blowing stuff. Keep up the great work.
ReplyDeleteThanks,
DeleteGuileine- + Les Campaniformes et la Méditerranée- J Guilaine. Vieillir dans le temps, jusqu'à la seconde moitié du 3e millénaire, ces routes méditerranéennes, nous semble légitimé par : 1-La présence de l'international en Sicile, Oranais, Nord du Maroc, Andalousie, Portugal , 2-Les affinités morphologiques entre certains gobelets maritimes Siciliens à panse large et certains gobelets Portugais (Alapraia) 3- Les rapprochements stylistiques qui existent entre certaines "cazuelas" à carène très anguleuse de Sicile et celle du groupe mesetan de Ciempozuelos. On observera que les jattes larges, mais à profil plutôt en S, ont une répartition davantage nordméditerranéenne (Meseta, Sud de la France, Sardaigne, Toscane) 4- L'ornementation basale des récipients, à motif cruciforme ou rayonnant à partir du fond ou de l'ombilic, est un trait commun à la Sicile, la péninsule Ibérique et le Midi. 5- On sait qu'il existe des coupes à pied dans la péninsule Ibérique (Carmona) ainsi qu'un exemplaire dans le Midi (le Pas du Noyer à Armissan, Aude). 6.-Le fonctionnement du réseau méditerranéen occidental campaniforme se manifeste aussi par la dispersion de certains éléments du complexe. La répartition, par exemple, des boutons "en tortue" isole parfaitement une Europe du Sud-Ouest dont la frontière relie le Centre-Ouest de la France, la Bourgogne, la Provence, la Sardaigne et la Toscane (fig. 15). Celle des pointes métalliques de Palmela coupe, de la même façon, la France en diagonale, de l'embouchure de la Loire à la Côte d'Azur, englobant ainsi Centre-Ouest, Aquitaine, Languedoc, Provence, péninsule Ibérique et Ouest du Maghreb.
ReplyDelete