Wednesday, December 9, 2015

Corded Ware Cultures Actually Related? (Semenov, Bulat, 2015)

Previously I hypothesized that ceramic pottery technology was part of a package brought by immigrants from the Baikal region sometime before the end of the PPNB and that these people, to the West at least, were members of the R1 paragroup (also Q).

This paper discusses a possible genetic relationship and deep ancestry of the Corded Ware cultures. 


Corded-style pottery can also be found in the Americas and South Asia, which sounds nuts that they would be somehow related but makes total sense since we are dealing with Holocene depopulation of the Trans-Baikal area at about the same time.  Semenov and Bulat make a case for the Americas, however there's several paths that I see that can get us there.

It's unlikely IMO, that R1a or Q had any significant input into Japan before the Kofun Period (as the authors suggest for the cording style around 3k B.C.  Also high quality Jomon pottery at that point was already around 7,000 years old or more.  But it's also possible there was insignificant communication or gene-flow between the continent and Japan at that early time and maybe that explains some of the stylization.  They make this latter case.

I suspect another interesting story beyond the scope of this paper will be the changes that were happening in the Euphrates and Zargos region around the same time (R1b largely IMO).  It's pretty clear to some that the ethnic composition and social structure changed, not evolved, around this time in certain communities.  I can't comment more, however I put it out there for discussion, argument, kindling, whatever.

Again, 'Desert Island Gold Watch'.

Possible North-Eastern Connections of the R1a1-populations of Corded Ware Culture According to the Archaeologic and Paleogenetic Data, Alexander S. Semeno, Vladimir V. Bulat   Russian Journal of Biological Research, 2015, Vol. (5), Is. 3 [Link]


Abstract
Our new work considers the problems of paleogenetics, archeology and antropology connected with origins of Corded Ware culture and early migration of Y-DNA R1 carriers. This work considers the Second Corded Ware Center on the Far East and Yakutia and its connection with the Eastern European one. Authors examine the hypothesis that the two Corded Ware cultures have the common source.
Keywords: R1a1, Mesolithic, Yuzni Oleni Ostrov, paleogenetics, paleolinguistics, subclades, Yakutia, Na-Dene.




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12 comments:

  1. DDedenDecember 10, 2015 at 12:59 PM

    I have hypothesized that pyramids and ziggurats derive from Lake Baikal sealers becoming proficient at ice(and timber/sod) block cutting for access and food storage, evidence includes sealing there 9ka, Oannes/Janus/Johannes sage of Sumer originally stemming from northern immigrants to Sumeria wearing sealcapes with seal head/caul left on, appearing to natives as fish-headed or two-headed, thus the year-end Anu/annual myths. Catal Huyuk oldest layer was squared timber, only later brick.

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  2. MajuDecember 10, 2015 at 5:03 PM

    There's also a corded decoration in the Neolithic of SE China, several cultures display it long before anything similar appeared in the West.

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  3. bellbeakerbloggerDecember 10, 2015 at 9:04 PM

    Thanks for bringing this up. Do you know what age of the SE Asian Cord pottery? I ask because the age of ceramics in China.

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    1. MajuDecember 11, 2015 at 5:21 PM

      OK:
      → Pengtoushan culture, 7500-6100 BCE, middle Yangtze: "cord-marked pottery".
      → Hemudu culture, 5300-3300 BCE, Shanghai area: "the pottery was sometimes also cord-marked" (example: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/CMOC_Treasures_of_Ancient_China_exhibit_-_black_pottery_cauldron.jpg)
      → Yangshao culture, 5000-3000 BCE, Yellow river (surely the proto-Han culture), example: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CMOC_Treasures_of_Ancient_China_exhibit_-_pottery_ding.jpg
      → Dapenkeng culture, 4000-3000 BCE, North Taiwan: "pottery impressed with cord marks"

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    2. MajuDecember 11, 2015 at 5:26 PM

      I haven't found anything clear about Zenpiyan (7000-5500, Pearl River) but I believe from memory they also used corded pots.

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    3. MajuDecember 11, 2015 at 5:27 PM

      Just looking at a single detail is not enough to establish connection, it seems that for whatever reason corded decoration (and maybe other motifs) were just common: a simple idea that many different people developed independently.

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    4. bellbeakerbloggerDecember 11, 2015 at 6:01 PM

      Great references and sorry for the late reply. Yeah it is probably just a simple design but I'm also intrigued by its seeming Asian roots. (Probably the same could be said for most ceramic)

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  4. capra internetensisDecember 12, 2015 at 1:34 PM

    I have heard, though I can't recall where, that some Northeast Indian potters make corded ware to this day. Apparently when shaping pottery with a wooden paddle wrapping it in cord keeps the paddle from sticking to the clay - and also leaves pretty marks.

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  5. Nick TDecember 13, 2015 at 9:18 AM

    I'm also fairly sceptical that putting all corded decoration together tells us anything much. We also see corded decoration among the 'Comb Ware' of northern Sweden, Norway and Finland and NW Russia by 4500 BC, so we don't have to look to the Baikal region for the idea.

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    1. AnonymousSeptember 13, 2023 at 6:56 AM

      Was glauben Sie, von wo die Ureinwohner Nordschweden, Norwegen und Finnland kommen. Außerdem nennt man diese Urbevölkerung heute Sami 🤣🤷‍♂️ denke sie darüber nach!

      Delete
  6. henriqueSeptember 20, 2020 at 10:07 PM

    It is haplogroup C connection...

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  7. henriqueSeptember 20, 2020 at 11:00 PM

    It is also found in the lapita complex culture....

    For instance
    https://mobile.twitter.com/tomnakamura/status/1124528627763146752

    some polynesians with caucasoid resemblance (middle eastern type), inherited from the C migration wave predating austronesians coming out of east asia:

    https://natlib.govt.nz/records/22646821?search%5Bpath%5D=photos&search%5Btext%5D=maori+portraits+wrapped+in+cloak

    https://natlib.govt.nz/records/22722940

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Femme_Maori_1998-23050-173.jpg

    https://world4.eu/maori-lady-full-dress-auckland-new-zealand/


    Now japanese/ainu:

    http://blog-imgs-45-origin.fc2.com/n/i/w/niwaka2pow/89_5_20140921015005cb9.jpg

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-77ba6ce49b8d9a95b02798720a9ad4bf

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-5fe619e498f8d7c05dca7dd325b78ca8

    Hiroshi abe:
    https://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/voiceactors/2/16837.jpg


    The Haplogroup C family of hunter-gatherers reached europe, east asia, siberia, oceania, americas

    Haplogroup C1a has been found in modern Japanese, Paleolithic and Neolithic Europe, and in very few samples of modern Europeans, Armenians, Algerians, Nepalis, Koreans, and northeast Chinese.It is thought that the haplogroups D-M55 (D1a2) and C1a1 were frequent in Jōmon people. One Jōmon man excavated from Rebun Island was found to belong to Haplogroup D1a2b1(D-CTS 220). Haplogroup D-M55 is found in about 35%-39% and haplogroup C1a1 in about 5% of modern Japanese people. In addition, it is assumed that the haplogroup C2 existed in a small amount of Jōmon people.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_C-M8

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Haplogroup_C_%28Y-DNA%29_2017.png


    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Haplogrupo_C1a1_%28ADN-Y%29.png


    So the plausible scenario here for europe is this style was able to remain long through many generations of prehistoric "ethnic cleansing"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comb_Ceramic

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